Come Follow Me LDS- Ye Must Be Born Again- Pt 2- John 3-4

Water, Women and Weddings

– The ‘King’ who is Born from the Holy of Holies through the veil.

– Mary as ‘The Throne’

– Being born again of water AND the Spirit.

– Ancient marriage scene of Jesus and the Woman at the Well.

Raw Transcript


Ye Must Be Born Again” Part 2


okay and then we move to chapter three

and here we have a story of Nicodemus

and this is very interesting we

oftentimes reduce this down to the idea

that we are talking about a baptism or a

baptism by water and we pair it we

compare that to the metaphor of being

born again and that’s right to a certain

extent but there’s much more to it and

especially in context with what we’ve

been talking about with a higher and a

lower law and Jesus bringing in the

Melchizedek priesthood and the fullness of

the gospel so we want to be very clear

on what this really represents because

John is painting a picture that is all

about the spirit of the law about the

higher law about the fullness of the

gospel and Melchizedek priesthood so

Nicodemus is a bigwig he’s a boss he is

a member of the Sanhedrin he is a master

in Israel as Jesus says and he’s a

Pharisee and so he comes to Jesus by

night and he says you know I believe you

must be the Son of God who else can do

these all of these miracles and

immediately Jesus comes back to him and

says these words here in verse 3 verily

verily I say unto you that except a man

be born again he cannot see the kingdom

of God so what does he mean by born

again and what does he mean by kingdom

of God we’ve covered this before the

kingdom of God is the fullness of the

gospel with the Melchizedek Priesthood

so right off the bat he’s saying you’ve

got to have the fullness of the gospel

you have to have everything you are

practicing a religion speaking to

Nicodemus that does not have everything

and in fact you have reduced everything

even with what you have just like a bin

and I was preaching to King Noah you

have reduced everything theologically to

rules and checklists and merit and

that’s it that’s all that exists your

sacrifices and the Law of Moses has

turned it

something completely different because

it’s supposed to represent what comes

before Christ is supposed to look

forward to the atonement into Christ and

that’s basically what he’s implying with

these words here and Nicodemus comes

back to him and says well wait a minute

how can I be born again do I enter a

second time into enter again a second

time into her mother’s room here we have

the mention of a woman again here we

have the mention of the mother again

again this is not trivial this is John’s

doing this on purpose and again being

born of God also has a representation of

the king coming out of the veil out of

the Holy of Holies through the veil

there’s a lot been spoken of about veils

lately a lot of changes that have gone

on good things but I worry about the

loss of the meaning of what the veils

represent and what the veil is I’m going to

do a podcast on that shortly here so

that we can take a closer look at what

veils are and what they mean to us so

you know do I have to go back into my

mother’s womb and be born again how can

I be born again and Jesus answers and

says verily verily I say unto thee

except a man and this is important we

skip through this long except a man be

born of water and of the Spirit and I

can just see Jesus emphasizing the

second half of that and of the spirit he

cannot enter into the kingdom of God

right so it is both baptisms it is the

baptism of water it is the baptism of

the Spirit that he’s talking about so he

is laying out here just as John did in

Chapter 1 the higher in the lower laws

the difference between Christ being the

Melchizedek and John being the Aaronic

priesthood Bearer

this is what he’s going over with

Nicodemus at this time and then he

follows up in verse 6 and says that

which is born of the flesh is flesh this

is the lower law this is what the

Iranian represents and that which is

born of the Spirit is spirit you’ve got

to be born of both right you

need to be reborn physically with the

baptism of the water and reborn

spiritually with the gift of the Holy

Ghost with by the authority of the

Melchizedek Priesthood and then Jesus

goes down and says you know are you a

master of Israel and you don’t

understand this well of course he

doesn’t understand it because they have

lost it

they lost it in many centuries before

when they gave up on Christ and put

Moses at the top and the lower law at

the top he then follows up and says I

have told you earthly things

ironic priesthood things temporal things

and he believed not so he’s telling them

just like Abinadi hey this is he’s

probably telling them I’m telling him

what the Law of Moses really represents

it’s a look forward it’s a preparation

for bigger things for the for Christ for

the Melchizedek how shall ye believe if

you don’t believe in these earthly

things how should he believe if I tell

you of heavenly things and that is the

new law the new covenant that he is

bringing then he talked about being

raised up just as the brazen serpent was

raised up and that the Son of Man will

be raised up as well mmm

so he and then he goes right into the

famous scripture that we see often times

at football games used to all the time

Tim Tebow puts it right here used to put

it right there

and that’s John 3:16 which says for God

so loved the world that He gave His only

begotten Son that whosoever believeth in

him should not perish but have

everlasting life so you can see as he’s

building up this a higher law and

telling him about it well the crux of

that higher law is the sacrifice of the

Son of God and the atonement paying for

everybody’s sins because then he follows

it up with for God sent not his son into

the world to condemn the world that was

that would be judgment that’s already

there with the ironic priesthood but

that the world through him might be


that’s the atonement and then we

followed down a little bit more we

talked about the light and the darkness

kind of referring back to chapter 1 and

truth and light and then we get in it

and then we get an interesting take from

John the Baptist we have some disciples

that are go that run back

John the Baptist who has not yet been

put into prison and they’re basically

saying look there’s you know Jesus and

His disciples at least are baptizing

a lot of people and John says great

that’s what we want I need to decrease

and he needs to increase so the very

humble approach he knows he is the

preparer of the way he is not the way

but he is the preparer of the way and

then he comes back in John as the

narrator here in the story he said he

gives John this these words

he says ye ourselves bear me

witnesses this is John’s word speaking

to his disciples that I said I am NOT

the Christ but that I am sent before him

he that hath the bride is the bridegroom

so here we have again marriage wedding

right this is the title that is given to

the Messiah is the brand to Jehovah is

the bridegroom but the friend of the

bridegroom being John which stand at

John the Baptist which standeth and

heareth him rejoiceth greatly because of

the bridegroom’s voice this my joy

therefore is fulfilled so wonderful

words from John the Baptist as the

preparer letting everybody know that he

is not the monistic that he is not the

Savior and he is not the Messiah okay

and now we’re going to move over to

chapter 4 and here we have more water

another woman and yes a marriage setting

this is very interesting the way John

portrays this as Jesus has just been in

Jerusalem with Nicodemus he’s now got to

go back to Galilee and on his way to

Galilee he’s going to pass through

Samaria and as he’s passing through

Samaria with his disciples he ends up

going to a place called Sekar which is

probably a mistake in the with the way

it’s written it’s probably Shechem this

is a place where Jacob and his

family lived for a while here we have

Jacob’s Well and here Jesus goes to

Jacob’s Well and interestingly enough

the disciples all leave so John sets

this up where Jesus is alone he’s by

himself and who does he meet at the well

he meets a woman so this is just Jesus

and just a woman that’s important

because this is a marriage type of

setting no this is not Jesus getting

married to the Samaritan woman but it is

a marriage setting so that John can

again show Christ here as the bridegroom

this is how it is set up as you recall

in the Old Testament for example Isaac’s

Abraham’s servant goes back to her on

and meets Rebekah at a well where she is

going to draw water and bring it back to

her home

and back to her family and she brings

Rebekah back to Isaac and they get

married this is a betrothal here that is

seen this is a marriage scene and then

again with Isaac’s son Jacob Jacob meets

Rachel at a well where she draws water

for him and this is a marriage type of a

scene and they and then and then after

they meet and he she gives him water

then they go back to the family and talk

to the family and then with Moses later

on right Moses leaves Egypt and he knows

definitely right where he’s going this

is not like the movie The Ten

Commandments where he’s wandering around

and he happens to stumble upon Jethro

Jethro is a high priest he has the

Melchizedek Priesthood he gives Moses

the Melchizedek priesthood Moses knows

exactly where he’s going and he ends up

at the well at Jethro in Jethro’s land

and meets his future wife Supporah there

right so same thing is happening so this

is a very common thing so readers know

exactly what this is

back then we don’t know that today but

this would be kind of like maybe a

princess who has fallen asleep and the

Prince comes and gives her a kiss and

she wakes up it’s something where you

know the scene

you know what’s happening here it is to

show that Christ that Jesus is the

bridegroom that he is Jehovah and that

he is basically married to Israel right

he who is the bride now some of the

symbolism that happens here is pretty

important so this is a scene where this

happened all the time anciently and not

just in the Middle East think about the

movie at least Jungle Book right with

Mowgli at the very end where is he at

when he sees the girl and he kind of

gets that look on his face like wow what

is this and what does she have she has a

vase or a water container that or she’s

coming to draw water right it’s the same

thing same type of scene and then we

have the symbolism of the water, which is

really interesting in Genesis in the

story of the Garden of Eden you have

coming from the Garden of Eden for

rivers or streams they’re coming out the

representation of this is that the

gospel is coming out to all four corners

of the world and the water there

nourishes the Tree of Life

so that’s why the woman would be very

involved there because the woman is also

a representation of the Tree of Life

just as the king is as Christ is and

she’s also a representation of the water

and so anciently you’ll find in temples

often in the Middle East and other

places you will see a woman in a temple

setting perhaps actually in the temple

with a water container and from that

water container is coming out streams of

water this is this is a very common

theme that you would see it sometimes as

a man as well and sometimes it’s a woman

but there are there is this water that

is coming out of the temple and this is

a reference that is made often times

with Ezekiel and with Isaiah where you

have these waters and so Christ is

coming to the Samaritan woman and she


you know who are you that you’re dealing

with me you’re a Jew and I’m a Samaritan

why are you even talking to me, which is

a separate point but he’s saying I am

the living water the water you’re giving

me you’re going to thirst again but I am

the living water that is the flowing

water that is coming out of the temple

that is coming out of the Garden of Eden

in the Gilbert temple in Arizona for

example you’ll see on the south side

you’ll see four streams of water coming

out as a representation of those four

rivers that are coming out of the Garden

of Eden so he is this living water the

water and the Tree of Life are basically

the same thing we see that in in

Lehigh’s vision also and then Jesus says

to the Samaritan woman you know go get

your husband and she says I don’t have a

husband and he says well you’re right

you don’t

he says you have had five different

husbands and now the man you’re with is

illegitimate Lee your husband he’s not

really your husband how many is that

that’s six so who is Jesus he is the

seventh he is the seventh bridegroom

he’s not marrying her but he is again

John is portraying it this way where he

is the seventh bridegroom here to make

everything complete and make everything

right and he does and the woman of

Samaria there at the well becomes the

first evangelist the first missionary

for Jesus that we are that we read about

and he she goes back speaks to her

family and others in the village Jesus

goes back there for a couple of days and

many of these Samaritans are converted

and which is pretty interesting because

in other parts of the Scriptures we read

that Jesus’s mission is to the Jews but

here he is preaching to the Samaritans

and this is an example of Jesus’s

Melchizedek Priesthood where he is going

beyond to the family beyond the lineage

that would come down through the Aaronic

priesthood and he is going to the entire

world and he is going to the Samaritans

and then later on Peter eventually

realizes he

used to go to all of the gentiles into

the whole world we read in the Book of

Mormon everywhere and in Isaiah about

the Gentiles and how they are involved

with the fullness of the gospel because

the fullness of the gospel does not come

through a lineage the priesthood of

Melchizedek does not come through a

lineage it is for everybody so here in

conclusion we have water women and

weddings and these are rich symbols that

John uses throughout his entire book and

as we can see he is portraying Christ as

the new Melchizedek and the restoration

of the gospel in each one of the cases

here in each one of these chapters with

the marriage at Cana he has going from a

lower level of water turning that to a

higher level and turning that into wine

in the story of Nicodemus he goes from a

lower level and earthly things to a

higher level with heavenly things and

talking about being born again not just

of water but of the Spirit also and then

lastly we have the water that the

Samaritan woman is offering Jesus as a

lower-level something you’re going to

thirst for again it’s a temporal thing

but Christ is offering something much

higher a water that is an eternal ever

flowing living water and that is what

John is basically trying to get across

worse there are two laws and Christ is

bringing in the higher law for us

we’ll talk to you next


Check out this episode!


  1. I recently discovered Greg Matsen and this podcast. This is just what I have been looking for – no fluff, all meat. So far he sticks to the script (scriptures) and doesn’t go off into the mysteries or throw in his own interpretation. Sometimes he will add something of interest as he goes along. Thank you Greg. Oh, and I love the drums at the beginning of the podcast. (Who is that?)

    • Thanks for the comment and for listening. I’ll try to stick to the meat! I also looked for something like this podcast and couldn’t find it, so my wife made me do one. I appreciate the feedback!

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