Come Follow Me LDS- 1 Corinthians 14-16 Part 1 (Sep 2 – 8)

‘Charity, Prophecy & Hierarchy’

– Faith, Hope & Charity as a hierarchy

– Even Spiritual Gifts have a hierarchy

– Women to be ‘silent’ in church?

– Women and the priesthood

Come Follow Me LDS- 1 Corinthians 14-16 Part 1 (Sep 2-8)

‘Charity, Prophecy & Hierarchy’ – Faith, Hope & Charity as a hierarchy – Even Spiritual Gifts have a hierarchy – Women to be ‘silent’ in church? – Women and the priesthood www.cwicmedia.com www.facebook.com/cwicmedia Podcasts: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cwic-media/id1428167000 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3BNjs4EJqo0iK4LURdTPDb Available on all podcast platforms! Cwic Show www.cwicshow.com

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1 Corinthians 14-16 Part 1

 

Raw Transcript

 

in this episode we’re going to talk

about charity prophecy and hierarchy

here we go so in this episode we’re

going to cover chapter 14 of first

Corinthians the following episode will

cover chapters 15 and 16 what we get

here in chapter 14 is kind of a follow

up on what Paul has gone over in first

Corinthians so far where he has focused

a lot on charity and on spiritual gifts

and as we’ve stated previously it’s

interesting that faith hope and charity

are brought together with spiritual

gifts Mormon and Mauro and I do the same

thing they bring this train of

attributes of faith hope and charity

what I would call attribute of

progression along with spiritual gifts

and what Paul ends up doing here

remember that he previously in talking

about faith hope and charity he says

that even if you have hope in Christ

it’s not enough faith isn’t enough and

he said that of these three faith hope

and charity is the most

important so he’s done something here

just like in the last episode we talked

about creating a hierarchical structure

where he goes back to the Garden of Eden

and he talks about God the Father being

the source of Christ and Christ being

the source of man and man being the

source of woman he’s put together kind

of this hierarchy of origin and that’s

what he does a lot in these epistles and

that’s what the gospel is really about

is about hierarchical structures and

here’s why and you’ve if you’ve been a

listener for a long time you know that

I’ve talked a lot about hierarchy and

out what I call a fluid hierarchy

because in a Gospel sense you have to

have something above you that you are

shooting for you have to have a place

where you are able to progress too and

you have to have a place where someone

can reach out a hand to help you and

then on the other side you have to have

someone people others where they are

looking to you as an example and as a

strength and where you can reach down

and pull them up that is all about a

hierarchical structure and a lot of

times we get this idea I even heard this

very recently here that all of these

spiritual gifts that Paul talks about

are the same they’re all of equal value

that sounds good right it sounds neat

just like saying a lot of things are the

same but that’s not the way the gospel

works it can’t work that way there has

to be a hierarchical structure and Paula

is pointing that out and he continually

goes through these hierarchical

structure even says with faith hope and

charity that charity is the greatest of

the three so there is a difference there

is a value a greater value given to

charity than there is to faith and to

hope one is more important than another

remember we can go back to Lehigh’s

teachings he has what I would call a

philosophical teaching a philosophical

theological teaching in second Nephi 2

and he goes back to the Garden of Eden –

and the creation story to get back to

this and one thing that he talks about

is that there must be opposition in all

things and I think that you can carry

that one step further and understand

what he’s saying that that doesn’t mean

just good and evil right you can’t just

say okay everything is good and

everything that’s good is the same and

and everything that’s evil is the same

that’s not how it works

there are levels there are two

of going to the dark side so to speak

and there are degrees of reaching up

higher and higher toward progression

there has to be and that has to go on

for an eternity so we want hierarchical

structures in the world and in in the

cosmos out there because it gives us

something to aim for and it gives us

something to warn us against going the

other way we need that we need context

with things that is part of part

partaking of the fruit of the knowledge

of the tree of good and evil right it’s

not just good and just evil there are

lots of degrees of evil there are lots

of degrees of good so he’s been going

over these hierarchies throughout

Corinthians and back even in Acts and in

Romans and one of those hierarchies that

he now goes over he doesn’t go

specifically into each one of the levels

but he now takes all these spiritual

gifts that he’s talked about and he’s

going to separate a couple of them and

he’s going to say one is good and one is

better right and that’s the way the

gospel works and so this is what he says

here starting out in in verse 1 of

chapter 14 follow after charity and

desire spiritual gifts but rather that

ye may prophesy now if we were to go

back and see a better translation of

this we would say and desire spiritual

gifts and rather that ye may prophesy or

especially that you ye may prophesy that

would be Weymouth translation and so

again there’s a lot of spiritual gifts

out there but especially prophecy now

another thing to think about here before

we go into these spiritual gifts is why

is charity always tied in with all these

spiritual gifts here and in the Book of

Mormon and I think one way to think

about this is that as this hierarchy has

already been set up by Paul with faith

hope let’s do this by faith hope and

charity

that that the spiritual gifts as they

are set up into a hierarchy also what

they do is they allow us to take these

spiritual gifts no matter what level

they are at and help those that may not

have that spiritual gift and we’ve

talked a lot about Covenant right and I

think that’s where charity comes in it’s

how do I use what the Lord has given me

to love others to help others to serve

others and so every time these spiritual

gifts are talked about and always a list

of all these different gifts charity is

brought up to be coupled with that

because it’s charity that is required to

use those spiritual gifts to lift others

up now back to the spiritual gifts what

Paul is going to do here in chapter 14

is he’s going to talk about two gifts of

speaking and the first one is this the

gift of tongues and then the second one

is the gift of prophecy so both of these

are things that would be spoken and so

he’s going to contrast the two of them

and show how one is better than the

other he’s constantly going in and

setting up this different values

hierarchy with the things that he’s

talking about so here’s what he says for

he that speaketh in an unknown tongue or

as the jst the Joseph Smith translation

would say of another tongue or another

language speaketh not unto men but unto

God for no man understandeth him howbeit

in the spirit he speaketh mysteries but

he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to

edification and exhortation and comfort

so basically what he’s saying is one

is a little bit more like the lower law

it’s good for you right remember the

lower law is about the individual this

is a gift of tongues is something that

it may be a great experience for you it

may be spiritually edifying to you but

the gift of prophecy is much better is

more of a higher law spiritual gift and

it is something that edifies the

that are around you so that is the

contrast that he’s setting up there and

that is a little bit of hierarchy that

he’s putting into these spiritual gifts

and he summarizes the individual aspect

of the gift of tongues and the community

aspect of the gift of prophecy as

follows here in verse 4 he says he that

speaketh in an unknown tongue in another

tongue edifieth himself but he that

prophesieth edifieth the church right so

again one is for the individual it’s

important it’s good but the other edify

though all those around him identify at

the community would edify your family

would edify the ward the church the

community etc and then he compares it to

musical instruments and basically says

look this is speaking in another

language is almost like having a bunch

of musical instruments that aren’t

following musical theory does somebody

just banging out and not something

that’s not in rhythm and you can’t

imagine somebody just playing the piano

just however just knocking on keys

there’s no order to it there’s no direct

communication to the ear that makes

sense they’re not following fifths in

octaves and etc and so that’s a lot like

speaking in tongues he says others don’t

understand what is going on so what good

is that to other anyone but yourself

so he says down in verse 12 even so ye

for as much as ye are zealous of

spiritual gifts so this is obviously

something where there was a lot of talk

about this how do we get the gift of

knowledge how do we get the gift of

prophecy the gift of tongues seem to

have seems to have been something that

the church in Corinth was really

pursuing and Paul tells us that he spoke

in tongues sure exactly what that means

but he says that he spoke in tongues

while he was with them in Corinth so

maybe that’s why that’s something that

they really seek after and he’s saying

hey that’s good but it’s not great so

again in 12 even so ye for as much as ye

are zealous of spiritual gifts seek that

ye may Excel to the edifying of the

church

so there’s a lot of things for example

and I get stuck in this sometimes where

I really like to study the gospel and I

like to study principles and kind of get

this individual personal selfish to some

degree knowledge and fulfillment from

just knowing right but unless I’m using

some kind of a gift be able to share

that with somebody else that helps them

then really I’m just following a lower

law I’m really just in the ironic law

it’s just only for me it’s an individual

gift and what I need to be pursuing is

something that will be a gift that could

help somebody else and share with

someone else or edify somebody else and

Paul gives us this in comparing the two

he says in verse 19 yet in the church I

had rather speak five words with my

understanding than by my voice I might

teach others also than ten thousand

words in an unknown tongue or another

tongue as Joseph Smith says so in other

words again I’d rather give a little bit

that helps somebody else even just a

small amount than something that just

helps me personally a large amount which

is an interesting concept right there he

is telling us look whatever helps you

individually is good but a large amount

of that help for you individually does

not compare to a small amount that you

can give to someone else and I think

that’s a real true principle a lot of

people that say may have depression or

are struggling with difficult times or

or they’re in a difficult place

emotionally or mentally it seems that

the more you focus just on yourself it

sometimes seems like that’s the natural

thing to do the more you focus on

yourself

the harder it is to get out of that

state of mind to get out of those

emotions but when you get outside of

yourself and you serve others and you

help others and you focus on their needs

then that is what typically

he lifts people out of a bad place that

would be at least what Paul is saying

here in comparing the value of these two

things internal and external spiritual

gifts and then we get just a little bit

of a smidgen here of a ward meeting we

might call it we don’t really have

anything that has been found written

down or any archaeological evidence that

gives us much information about how the

early meetings of first century

Christians went certainly not during the

time of Paul so we get just a little bit

of maybe what they did sometimes in

these meetings and we start off here

with not only that some people speaking

in tongues but we have some guidelines

that Paul gives to the branch here in

Corinth he says let the prophets speak

two or three now here when he’s saying

prophets he’s either talking about the

leaders of the branch of the ward of the

stake whatever we might have here or the

unit or he’s talking about those that

are prophesying and in that sense it

would be men or women but he says here

let the prophets speak two or three and

let the other judge so you might get up

and say something about the gospel maybe

that’s what they’re talking about

prophecy it’s truth you’re bearing truth

or maybe they’re talking about things

that they see and understand within the

gospel maybe they’re talking about

testimony it’s hard to know always what

they’re talking about when they say

prophesy here but then it says if

anything be revealed to another that

sitteth by let the first hold his peace

so in other words have a conversation

here and if something comes to mind to

someone let them talk maybe this is a

little bit more like a sunday-school

environment hopefully a sunday-school

environment for ye may all prophesy one

by one that all may learn and all may be

comforted so we can see here hi another

nuance to what he says here when he uses

the term prophecy maybe everybody can

stand up and say something

about the gospel about the topic that’s

being discussed sounds like a big

conversation and then he says something

important here that we follow today as

well in verse 32 it says and the spirits

of the prophets or those that are

speaking our subject to the prophets so

in other words look you we can all have

these ideas and say these certain things

but there is an overlaying

doctrine that needs to be followed but

the principle here that Paul is talking

about is look there is a hierarchy of

doctrine and the prophets and apostles

that are speaking that is at the top

along with the scriptures which are the

Apostles and the prophets and so that

hierarchy comes down in importance or in

value or in surety right so we can speak

what we want and say what we want say

it’s even in Sunday school

or it’s in our Relief Society or elders

quorum but the more sure word of

prophecy is going to come from the

prophets seers and Revelator’s and maybe

somewhere down at the bottom of that

hierarchy is quick media perhaps and

then Paul says something really

interesting here following up with that

that hierarchy of the doctrine here he

says for God is not the author of

confusion but of peace as in all

churches of the saints so again what is

peace we think about you know what

does that mean is doesn’t mean

everything’s just kind of what are they

talking about when they say peace think

about one of the titles of the savior of

the Messiah and that is the Prince of

Peace he is the author of peace in that

annual temple drama at the Feast of

Tabernacles that we’ve talked about many

times one of the names of the Covenant

that was put in place there with the

people and the king and maybe the

prophet at that time was the covenant of

peace

and the idea is in that Day of

Atonement where the high priest and the

King are involved perhaps you have the

sprinkling of the blood on the altar on

the holy in the Holy of Holies on the

Ark of the Covenant perhaps on the

people even you have a cleansing of

the temple a cleansing of the high

priest and his family you have a

cleansing of the tribes of Israel you

have a cleansing of the Land of Israel

and this was something that was supposed

to create a peace and everything was

bound together as in the creation from

this covenant right this bonding binding

covenant of peace and Jesus Christ is

the author of that covenant of peace

what is the name of the holy city

it is salem that is what it was called

at the time of Melchizedek and what is

Melchizedek mean the king of righteousness

or another term could be similar term

would be Prince of Peace and being the

king of Salem he was the king of peace

right Salem is Shalom it’s peace or

Giroux Shalom right Giroux Shalom or

Jerusalem so he is the king of Jerusalem

he is the Prince of Jerusalem King in

the sense that maybe he’s the father and

Prince in the sense that maybe he’s the

son so there is an author of confusion

as well and in that drama

he’s very familiar to all of us he is

chaos and he is the opposite of what

Paul here is speaking of with an order

talk about order and chaos with an order

that is set forth through hierarchies

and then we get to another controversial

subject on gender roles and here we have

Paul again talking about women and how

men and women should behave in church

and so let’s try and unravel this a

little bit

and see if we can’t understand what he’s

trying to say here first of all again

the preface to this is this is 1st

century Roman world right this is in

Corinth it is the square peg or part of

the square peg of history that’s existed

for most of human history that does not

fit into the round hole of modernity of

our time today it just doesn’t fit so

there are a lot of cultural issues that

would be seen as appropriate not just

because of behavior but actually

theologically to try and hold things

together between these pagans that are

members of the church that have a very

very different background and the very

staunch pharisaical Jews that are also

here and how do you bring that together

what do you how do you how do you

reconcile this so he is navigating these

waters between his cultures and he is

obviously of a first-century culture so

here’s what it says in verse 33 now

excuse me verse 34 it says let your

women keep silence in the churches ouch

for it is not permitted unto them to

speak see in this time when they were

speaking this and he’s writing this

letter this is not controversial right

this is not misogynist this is there are

different roles for men and women

were domestic and going out into the

world including church there would have

been separate roles that the men

followed and that the women followed not

because of oppression but because of

societal and natural demands on survival

and progress so then he follows up and

he says but they are commanded to be

under obedience as also saith the law so

the law is the law of Moses so let’s

talk about this just a little bit first

of all real important thing to know and

you’re not going to see this in your in

your King James Version of the inspired

scriptures

with its footnote but there is apart

from the jst that shows a Smith

translation the little blurbs that you

get in the King James version there is a

full a much fuller Joseph Smith

translation that we have that is not in

the scriptures in the LDS scriptures and

in this and in this verse here Joseph

Smith does change a word here he changes

the words speak and this is how it

changes the verse let’s read it again on

this and use instead of the word speak

we use the word rule okay that’s what

Joseph Smith put in here he said let

your women keep silence in the churches

for it is not permitted unto them to

rule but they are commanded to be under

obedience as also saith the law which

most of the other men would have been

under the other the obedience because

they wouldn’t have been the rulers of

the congregation right we say rule that

sounds crude to us but the leaders the

bishopric those that hold the keys in

whatever their position might be so it

kind of sounds like what they’re saying

here is that it is up to the man holding

the priesthood to run the meetings and

not for the women and that isn’t any

different from today I’ve seen some

commentaries on this where they say in

that day the men ran the meetings and

I’m thinking we’ll wait a minute it’s

the same thing here today that’s not

different of course there are other

meetings that the women run but if there

is a presiding priesthood holder then

that priesthood holder would run the

meeting we still have that division

right of different roles within the

church now that is changing a lot who

knows how much it will change I don’t

know but it changes again it changes

because of our modern world technology

and changes that have given women many

many more options have completely

changed the world in many ways for good

so men are to be the priesthood holders

those that are running the meetings of

church and then 35 still going through

this it says and if they will learn

anything this is the women let them ask

their husbands at home for it is a shame

for women to speak in the church and

again Joseph Smith replaces speak with

rule right for it is a shame for women

to rule in the church so is Paul giving

us a doctrine that is theologically firm

and set or is he giving us a cultural

reflection of the time well for the most

part at least as far as what has been

revealed to the Brethren at this point

it seems theological and that women are

given many roles and the ability to

create life in partnership with God the

greatest power that there is and men are

given the priesthood and what is going

to be interesting to see as we see this

evolution of men and women in their

roles and this fight with gender is how

the family unit is going to survive

through this will it flourish will it

stay even-keeled

will it disintegrate that doesn’t mean

there isn’t some cultural fluff in there

right I mean look at the difference

between the church even in the last 50

years when I was growing up women didn’t

pray in church in sacrament meeting that

was culturally acceptable so there is

obviously leeway in between this as

society changes as culture changes but

where does it hit up against I don’t

know something firm but you’ve got to

take I think all of these when you think

about these things and these societal

currents these cultural currents that

are out there that can be good or can be

bad you’ve got all of these moving parts

going right you have got the family

which is paramount

you have got gender with such a fast

change in culture you have an even wider

gap in the generation gap in many things

so–that’s parents to children and their

relationships it’s going to be very

interesting to see how the church

responds to these cultural currents and

these parts moving around can they be

juggled around or do they need to stay

in a specific order and that is what

Paul is going over here be it

theological and doctrinal or cultural on

the other end he’s talking about order

and he’s talking about hierarchical

structures and here we wouldn’t say

again that the man is superior to the

woman I think if we were to go back to

last week and talk about the hierarchy

of origin and source from again as I

said the father at the head the head

which means the source and then Christ

as the and he’s the source of Christ

Christ is the source of man and man is

the source of woman what we might look

at there is not a hierarchical structure

of importance or Authority even but

maybe it is a hierarchy of leadership

and if we looked at the family

proclamation we might see something like

that and some people aren’t going to want

to hear that but I’m just trying to say

what is it that we read in this or

do we just ignore it and I choose not to

ignore it I think it needs to be

discussed and so then Paul finishes up

here in chapter 14 bringing together

these points he says here in verse 39

wherefore brethren covet to prophesy and

forbid not to speak with tongues so in

other words what you really want to aim

for is that value that is high in the

hierarchy of prophecy of maybe testimony

that can be shared with others to

strengthen them but and forbid not to

speak with tongues but allow the lower

gift that’s important to it’s not as

high as what you should be aiming for

and maybe as we go through again we’re

going to see more hierarchy in the next

episode

the three kingdoms as he talks about

baptisms for the dead and maybe we might

say hey prophesy here is more of a

celestial gift and maybe speaking with

tongues is more of a terrestrial or

celestial gift there are hierarchies and

that’s okay and as I speak about fluid

hierarchies what that means is it

doesn’t matter even where you are within

a hierarchy as long as that hierarchy

for you is fluid and that means that you

have opportunity to choose not a right

to instantly be put into one place but

the right to be able to get where you

want to go and to be who you want to be

and to be able to fulfill the divine

promise as a son or daughter of God that

you inherently have I’ll talk to you

next time

 

Come Follow Me for Individuals and Families

2 Comments

  1. I love your videos and try to all of them. Thanks for all of your work.

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